|
|
Post by Ryo on Jan 29, 2015 12:07:00 GMT -5
This was....honestly people didn't know what to make of the match. An almost literal nobody was standing on one side of the stage. Nobody knew who the guy was and could only determine he had a nice hat. On the other side of the stage was...another individual that most didn't really know who he was. They were essentially a giant lizard covered in skulls. They were completely out of place on the stage of a debate and the crowd was aware of it. This was going to be a strange round.
The two were set up on a stage, each with a podium and with the announcer located between them. They were all positioned as such that the crowd could see their faces. The announcer was a human male, dressed for the occasion and hired by the Representative to help run the debate.
"Welcome everybody to another round of this year's Declaration of Intellect! My name is Hans and I will be your announcer for today's events. I...honestly don't have a witty remark to lead up to the topic this time, I can't even really tell who we're working with here."
From his own podium, Hans pulled out a small piece of parchment and set it down in front of him, clearing his throat before continuing.
"Without further adieu, the topic for this Declaration of Intellect is...'Drafting the lower social classes into military service will positively improve the strength of our armed forces'. Huh. I wonder why this topic was chosen? Well, you both know the topic. Mr....Maeldir, I think it says, you will be going first. Pick whichever side of the topic you feel comfortable with and start us off."
The stage was set, the cards were dealt, it was time to see how these two would handle the issue thrown at them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Maeldir on Jan 30, 2015 0:05:32 GMT -5
What.
The.
Fuck.
Soren had knew upon signing up it was probably a bad idea. Arguing in front of a crowd of people? No problem. Doing so formally? Ehh, may be a bit difficult. But hey, it was good pay if you won, and he figured it'd be worth a shot. What's the worst that could happen, he'd lose? They'd laugh him off the stage? He spent most of his time outside the cities anyway, so what would he care? But even a forager needs Money for the occasional purchase-- And he's sure his Sister wouldn't mind some extra coin either. God knows she loved the stuff. So on a whim he'd signed up, assuming he'd probably face some scholar or wannabe intellectual.
Instead, he got a god damn Tyrannosaurus Rex.
Soren knew he was an oddity on stage, a mage nobody had ever heard of or would likely see again. But what the actual fuck-- His opponent was a nine foot tall Lizard. He knew some beastfolk were more phantasmal than others but jesus, this was unreal. He wasn't quite sure it could even talk! It must have been able to, since it signed up somehow, but he'd be less surprised if his Pegasus started reciting the alphabet than if the lizard dwarfing the other podium could get a legitimate sentence out. Needless to say, he stood rather speechless as they were "introduced" and given their topic. Only the mention of him by name snapped him out of the stupor at gazing in disbelief at his "opponent."
"Right. Drafting the lower social classes into a military they obviously don't want to serve will strengthen our armed forces. If you can't guess from my opening sentence, I am firmly against this declaration. Not only is it an immoral action to force only those whom are at the bottom of societies economic barrel into fighting and dying, it is an ineffective strategy that will make a negligible positive impact on the strength of the military, if not an outright negative one. Introducing such an action would not only cause unrest in the already unhappy lower echelons of society, but it would decrease general military efficiency and discipline."
Soren paused: He debated going into a detailed explanation to start with, but had to catch himself. That wasn't how these things worked, was it? He had to let his opponent respond: Starting with an endless rant probably wasn't the best idea. He highlighted his main points, and would go into detail later when they became relevant. For now he'd simply pass the floor to his opponent-- Mostly because he was genuinely curious if the thing could actually speak or if this was just some giant prank being pulled on him. At this point, it would not shock me in the slightest.
"But for now, I'd love to hear why this could possibly be considered a good idea from my opponent, so I'll pass him the floor. Assuming he can speak. He can speak right? I'm not crazy?"
|
|
|
|
Post by nakai on Feb 2, 2015 8:44:59 GMT -5
The Lizard listened to the elflings claims about weakening forces by including those of lower background in military forces or at least training, though his personal opinion suited the side that he got first.
Nakai spoke in a deep aged tone, “I believe in the survival of the fittest and most able, it would be disadvantageous for the military forces in battle to be both having to protect people and fight off the enemy, it would put the forces at a disadvantage and thus could cause a loss in battle due to the forces being forced to become overextended”
The Beast moved on “By drafting them it allows them to receive training to at least be able to hold their own and defend their lands, thus allowing the military forces greater ability to manoeuvre, this would also then allow us to track down individuals whom have unique abilities, skills and traits as well as mind sets which could further bolster our forces”
He then stared deep into the elf’s eyes “Now elvenkin, what would you response be ?”
|
|
|
|
Post by Maeldir on Feb 2, 2015 13:07:23 GMT -5
Soren was so flabbergasted by his opponents ability to speak he almost forgot to give a crap about what he was actually saying. Holy shit, the Tyrannosaurus actually could talk! Amazing. What he was saying was not-so-amazing, but Soren went ahead and chalked that up to possibly not getting the side he wanted. Or maybe his walnut sized brain-- Lizards had tiny brains, right? It's okay, it was impressive enough that such a massive thing could talk at all, he could forgive it for having bad opinions. Somewhat.
"First off, Survival of the Fittest? We're not Phantasms-- People are not and cannot be judged by their ability to fight and survive forced military servitude. Unless you're telling me all our lovely audience members here should have to fight their way through phantasms for a few years to prove their worth. We haven't operated off such primal principles since before the days of the Hero King Dragoon, and let me tell you, I don't think anyone wants to go back to those days. Saying that only those whom can wield a sword especially well deserve to survive is barbaric, uncivilized, and frankly a bit self-serving in your case, don't you think? Not everyone's a twelve foot tall scaled Goliath."
The last shot was meant as more of a joke than an insult, rolling off the tongue without much malice behind it. Normally, insulting people was fine and dandy with the sorcerer, so long as they weren't about to beat his face in for saying it. He had no idea what the temper of this monstrosity of a terran in front of him was, so that was part of why he held his tongue. The more significant part was because this seemed to be a rather official debate, and he neither wanted to personally attack his opponent nor rile him up to the point of a shouting match. It was unprofessional, and though Soren didn't care much about professionalism, he did want that damn gold.
"But, I'll humor you. Let's say we did want to operate on this principle, and shove people into military service to find out who was the most "fit" to survive. Then why would we only do it to the lower castes? Are the rich suddenly exempt from this natural right? Does their money make them inherently more "fit"? Does being wealthy automatically make you a warrior exempt from needing training? I'd love to see anyone argue that this was the case, as it is very obviously false. Any draft to enforce the "Survival of the Fittest" would be flawed from the start as it would not actually apply the law over the entire species, just a select group that some won't miss and who can't argue back for their own rights. That's tantamount to mass murder."
"Now that we've established that, let's move on, shall we? I believe you argued that our military efficiency would increase on account of no longer needing to protect people, yes? Well on account of only a part of the population not getting this "amazing military training", that would not be true, as guess who would still need protection? The rich, the upper class, those whom actually, y'know, own most the land that the military spends their time protecting. They'd just have a few more unwilling bodies to do it. Not to mention those among their own forces whom are unfit and unsuited to combat must now be protected, and this would be in every engagement that unit faces, not just when some village or town is being assaulted."
"You say by drafting them we give them the capability to defend their own land-- What land? The land they hardly can hardly afford to own, because they don't have the money to avoid this draft of the poor? The land they have to leave for years of military service, letting it wither and rot without being worked? The land they have to hope isn't pillaged, bought or claimed while they're off fighting the war of someone else? That land? All the draft would do is breed a whole lot of discontent toward the government from the impoverished-- The now military trained impoverished, by your definition."
"Tell me, do you know what the leading cause of banditry is? It's when the peasantry, the lower classes, are oppressed and discontent. They turn to banditry out of desperation and malcontent for a state that does nothing for them but bring misery. You know what really causes some misery? Creating a prejudiced system that takes only those on the low end of the totem pole, shoves a weapon into their hand, and forces them to go fight for their lives on a daily basis because the rich people who couldn't be bothered decided that was the best use of them. At best, you'll have some irritated if not downright pissed off soldiers suddenly in charge of defending the same people who made them leave their homes and fight for their lives. At worst, you'll have a massive increase in insubordination, mutiny, a total collapse of military discipline, and an absurd rise in Banditry."
Making sure he'd said everything he wanted to get out in response, Soren learned forward on the podium, resting his head in one hand propped up by an elbow. He faced the Lizard, almost completely ignoring the audience whom didn't really expect much from the hobo and the T-rex on stage to begin with, giving his opponent a rather amused smile. He raised one arm and made a "go on" motion, signalling that he was ceding the rest of the time for his statement and passing the floor back to his opponent for a response. In all honesty, half the fun for the wizard was just watching the damn thing talk. It tickled his funny bone like few things could to see a gargantuan reptile like his opponent stand behind a podium and argue social politics with him. He had to stop himself from completing the forming mental image of the damn thing in Valentine mage or scholar robes, some of those silly spectacles some people loved to wear, and maybe Absalom's funny hair-do, lest he double over from laughing too hard on stage.
|
|
|
|
Post by nakai on Feb 7, 2015 18:02:45 GMT -5
Nakai listened to the words of the elf, though it seemed he had not properly explained his points completely and left them far to brief for the young creatures mind to understand, maybe he was far too old and other beings couldn't understandard him any longer, maybe he was back in the old days of the world and there was a new age coming with younglings that would at some point take his place, when he was ashen in the earth.
Nakai spoke when the other creature became silent, though he could say he was at the losing point as he was having to counter and explain his points in more depths and maybe his views where warped compared to the young elf whom had seen a different age and a different battle field to him.
"Well young one, those whom have more wealth of course can higher guards, but everyone should at least be able to fight for themselves, otherwise you put others in danger, if you have to focus on your enemy and your say "lover" thats what you creatures call them anyway, you leave yourself open and overextended, but if you fought alongside each other you'd have greater ability to survive"
"Personally, id be happy for everyone to be put through training, it would be rather fun to see those wealthy little things that are locked in there golden cages, grow some muscle, I have only survived my life because i have faced challenges and hardship, if you don't experience that or make experiences of your own as well as people to hold your back, you will one day die because of that opening and weakness, I don't seek to make all into soldiers just those whom are good enough to be that class up."
"You claim people don't have holdings or work holdings or hunt the lands, not all land you could say is owned some is too dangerous but there is things the young can do that the far old can't do anymore, Adventure see the world and gain experiences and live life to the full while you still can, once they return they could guard there homes and there families and have the trust that there family can at least hold there own and not be fully reliant on them, It would also increase the strength and ability of the young and let us find those with potential"
"Banditry is from desperation and rebellion, if they have places to go or things to occupy there minds then logically that should fade, the bandits that attack those innocent travellers whom can't afford guards or travel routes without patrols would be able to fight back and protect themselves with good measure also"
"How do you respond young blood"
Nakai queried....
|
|
|
|
Post by Maeldir on Feb 9, 2015 0:46:24 GMT -5
"Well, I think you're bringing up points for the wrong argument then, mate--,er Lizard--- ...Whatever you'd like to be referred to as."
A roll of the soldiers accompanied a more upright posture as Soren stretched at the end of his opponents statement, working the stiffness out of his muscles. Christ, these things got so dull. You don't think about it at the time, but standing behind a podium for quite a while really makes the limbs stiff and locks up the posture. His stretching however did nothing to pause or halt his retort, choosing to do so as he worked some of the numbness out of his arm.
"First off, you just agreed with my point that even the rich should have to be subjected to "training" as you call it, which renders your entire side of the argument void as that completely disagrees with the notion that only the lower social classes should be drafted. But once again, I suppose if I just left it there it'd be a rather weak counter presentation, wouldn't it? So I'll humor you and expand on the rest of it again, because I can't just not give our audience a show; That would be rather rude, no? They came to see an argument, after all."
"So jumping right in then, you describe a situation where someone's "lover" might be in danger and they would have to go out of their way to protect them? Oddly specific situation, but universally applicable I suppose. The conflict there is that one trained individual must defend another untrained individual, yes? Well guess what drafting scores of malnourished, despondent, scared and discontent impoverished into the military will do? Add dozens at least of this type of soldier into military forces. We're talking about the situation you just used as an example in literally every single engagement that unit has to face. And this isn't a hypothetical situation, the other soldiers would be put in harms way specifically because there are soldiers among them whom are only there due to forced compliance, which is not a good motivator to follow orders in a life or death situation. Not only will those slave warriors, because let's face it ladies and gentleman, that's what they'd be, die in battles they are ill-equipped for, so would all the good, trained, disciplined soldiers whom now have to rely on them."
"You mention adventure as a motivator, but I'm not sure you quite understand military service if you do; Adventurers aren't hired by the military. They go off and explore and do things because they want too, not because any overlord with a metaphorical cattle prod is swiping them off the streets and forcing them into combat. Military soldiers don't get to go on adventures, explore new lands, uncover hidden ruins, all that crap. They get to stand guard. They get to run patrol. They get to go do whatever they're told to do, fight what they're told to fight, and die where they're told to die."
"People with potential for military service already enlist, or become adventurers, or express them however they see fit. You can't scoop out an entire portion of people, chuck them into a damn meatgrinder, and see what comes out just to see if what survives has "potential". Potential for what? To survive the meat grinder? You're argument essentially boils back down to finding those whom survive as they have greater "potential", but what about all those who die? How many bakers, scholars, teachers, fathers, husbands, sons, will die just because their "potential" as a soldier wasn't enough? Does their worth mean nothing because they found the wrong end of a god damn spear shoved into their stomach in some forsaken land foreign to them?"
"Regardless of what you may think, I can tell you what those peoples families, their friends, their fellow discontent will think: No, they were worth something, and they were murdered by a government that took them from whatever homes they might have had and forced them to fight. You think Banditry will go down because people have things to do? The lower socialites already have things to do: It's called surviving. When a man is faced with the choice to be dragged off to serve those whom obviously care nothing for him or his kind, why would he not turn to Banditry? If he must fight either way, why not for himself, rather than a government that just wants another meat shield? By implementing a draft, you force these people into a life of violence one way or another: And most won't choose to side with the ones forcing it on them."
"Even worse those whom come back from said training and find that they now have, as you say, nothing to do. But I believe I already covered this, no? The military trained impoverished and all that? I don't think I need to delve back into it; I've already explained how bad that would be for literally everyone."
"So that's what I have to say to that, Dinosaurus Rex. Your turn."
A yawn ended his closing statement, as he continued stretching. The audience probably thought he wasn't taking this seriously, and they might be right. Soren never had much regard for official things, and while he had tried, really tried, like really, really tried to remain proper for it, there was just no way he could stay regal about this. He was debating a god damn Dinosaur. If this wasn't meant to be humorous in some way, Soren didn't know what was, so he might as well relax a bit. Besides, he was pretty sure he had a firm grasp on the argument anyway.
|
|
